biggest HHD on HPT366?!

[KliK]

hy again to you all,

recently my HDD of 80GB got almost full...so now i'm thinkig about buying bigger one...but remembered there is a problem with some cases of BIOS & with 137+GB HDD, or with drivers & big HDD...
so if anyone can tell me more about it...


for info: i'm running the BP6 with RU version of BIOS with 1,25v HPT366 BIOS & 1,25,1v WinXP driver for the HPT366...
why am i running htis?! it is supposed to be the fasted setup for the HDD & HPT366 device...

thanks, Luke

[s4brains]

KliK,

It is nice to see you again after a long absence.

I don't know how much money you have to spend, but my best suggestion is for you to purchase a used ATA 100 drive card in addition to your new drive. I recommend a Promise "Ultra ATA/100" card. The reasons for my suggestion are these:

1) To the best of my knowledge, no version of firmware BIOS for a HighPoint 366 controller exists that supports disks larger than 137 GB.

2) Data transfer rates for the HPT 366 are capped at ATA 66. With an add-in ATA 100 card you can obtain faster transfers. (Thus you can fill up your new disk faster <grin>.)

3) The Promise card is known to work properly with a BP6.


Check eBay auctions for a Promise card. One can also purchase the same card with the "Maxtor" brand name. The Maxtor card is identical except for the brand name and the firmware BIOS on the card CMOS. Average prices for a Promise card are approximately $15 (US) and about $10 for the Maxtor card.

With either brand (Promise or Maxtor) it is necessary to visit the Promise product support website to obtain the latest drivers and firmware BIOS and flash the card with the new BIOS. The new BIOS is necessary to provide large drive support. The default BIOS on either brand of card does not support large drives. Do not use WinXP drivers and do not use the card without the "new" firmware BIOS. Do not obtain the updated BIOS or drivers from Maxtor. The Promise versions are superior in ease of use and installation.

You might also consider a Promise "TX - 133" card, but these cards are more expensive and ATA 133 isn't really necessary since very few PATA (Parallel ATA) drives larger than 137 GB provide ATA 133 transfer capabilities.

If you buy one of these cards, attract my attention again later because there are some preferred settings in the BP6's own BIOS which influence the ATA 100 drive card's operation. I don't want to shutdown my BP6 at this current moment to refresh my memory because it is playing music videos in another room with other people watching the videos.

My BP6 has two drives. A 45 GB drive attached to the system board IDE (not the HPT 366.) This drive is divided into a 10 GB FAT32 boot partition and a 30 GB NTFS data partition. The second drive is a 160 GB drive which is attached to a Maxtor card with Promise firmware BIOS. This drive is divided into two equal 74 GB FAT32 partitions. The second drive is not yet quite full. It contains approximately 1300 MPEG2 music videos which can play for about 72 hours without repeating a single video. I used FAT32 for the music videos because the drive and ATA 100 drive card occasionally get moved to a machine running WinME.

Best Regards,

s4

[KliK]

well the big issue is that i have only one PCI left on the machine, all othres are full:
1. empty
2. network card
3. USB 4+1 v2,0
4. & 5. Voodoo2 on SLI mode for ePSXemu or other older games...

but the machine is used for the storage, which i'm running out of...and i have noticed that there are some version of BIOS & drivers that do support larger disks than 137+GB...some of the guys here are using it, even with 250GB HDD...
if it was room, i would have bought that card...but i must do the alternative, find the right BIOS & drivers - even for sacrifing speed!!


p.s. sorry for the headline...i thought i wrote it OK, bu aparentlly didnot come as suppoed to -> HDD!!

[Dave Rave]

what you really need is another bp6
that would fix it.

[Wolfram]

but the machine is used for the storage, which i'm running out of...and i have noticed that there are some version of BIOS & drivers that do support larger disks than 137+GB...some of the guys here are using it, even with 250GB HDD...

I had run a 200GB Samsung on the standard IDE without any problems. BUT there is AFAIK no BIOS that supports large disks. 48bit-LBA support is given through the Microsoft IDE driver (atapi.sys) supplied with Windows, at least if you have XP SP1 or SP2 installed.

The 200GB drive did NOT work on the HPT366 in Windows, though it might work in Linux, as purrkur suggested.

Bottom line: You are stuck at UDMA 33 with a large drive. And the onboard IDE also feels slower than the HPT366. So an addon card is really the best way to go.

Have to add that I had serious trouble with that Samsung 200GB / P120 IDE drive on an ITE chipset addon card on the BP6, system froze every 10 seconds for a second or so, probably some exotic incompatibility.

Why don't you want to use the first IDE slot? Afraid of IRQ sharing issues?

[Jordan]

Couldn't you make partitions on the drive?
I've heard if a single drive can't be used to its full size you can just add partitions to use the full drive.
I haven't experimented with that, but I think one of my friends had issues with drives being too big and got them working using partitions.

[s4brains]

BUT there is AFAIK no BIOS that supports large disks. 48bit-LBA support is given through the Microsoft IDE driver (atapi.sys) supplied with Windows, at least if you have XP SP1 or SP2 installed.

Wolfram,

The above statements are quite misleading. System BIOS's which support 48-bit addressing DO exist and this is required for large drive support for a large drive attached to a system board IDE controller. In the case of a PCI add-in controller card, the BIOS present on the add-in card must possess 48-bit addressing support. In the case of a SCSI controller built-in to a system board like the HPT366, the system BIOS component that controls the SCSI controller must possess 48-bit addressing support.

It is true that the o/s must also support 48-bit addressing but this alone is not sufficient for proper operation. BIOS support must also be present. If I remember correctly WinXP with SP2 provides the o/s component fully at installation default conditions while WinXP with SP1 reguires subsequent registry tweaks to enable 48-bit LBA support.

With an alternative o/s like BeOS or Linux it is possible to bypass the BIOS requirement because these o/s's can build a software "sector translation" remapping algorythm into the kernel. One could also use a program like OnTrak Software and Windows without BIOS support but I would not recommend this solution

Couldn't you make partitions on the drive?
I've heard if a single drive can't be used to its full size you can just add partitions to use the full drive.
I haven't experimented with that, but I think one of my friends had issues with drives being too big and got them working using partitions.

Jordan,

No, splitting a disk into multiple partitions IS NOT a valid solution.


KliK,

Visit this location for information:

http://www.48bitlba.com/

There you will find answers and solutions which are far more trustworthy than the comments and opinions (including my own) presented here.

Best Regards,

s4

[KliK]

Why don't you want to use the first IDE slot? Afraid of IRQ sharing issues?

the cooler of the Hercules Prophet 4500 would get in the way...maybe there would be room, but questionable is the cooling options!!

[KliK]

HighPoint Technologies, Inc.

HPT366 Host Adapter Device Driver

BIOS Revision 1.30.0

#############################################################################
Revision History:
1.30.0 30Sept01
. Fix compatibility problem with ATA-100 hard disks

1.28.0 22Aug00 (beta)
. Fix compatibility problem with FUJITSU MPF3xxx disks

1.27.0 17Aug00 (beta)
. Fix disk capacity size display error for IBM 75GB disk

1.26.0 08Aug00
. Fix compatibility problem with IBM DTLA ATA-100 har disk

1.25.0 04Apl00
. Fix problems with Diamond Fireport 40 SCSI adapters

1.24.0 06Mar00
. Add IC controller revision control
. Users need to update related OS drivers if cuurent BIOS v1.24
or above is used

1.23.0 28Jan99
. Increase delay time while scanning devices. Some devices need
more time to be ready after reset

1.22.0 . Fix compatability problem of Seagate Barracuda hard disks

1.21.0 . Fix BIOS display overlapped with SCSI type controller. BIOS
should clean up screen whenever the initialization is done.
. Fix BIOS not be recognized on certain PCI slot. This is
caused by BIOS scanning the wrong PCI slot address.

1.20.0 . Change BIOS interface to allow users to alter disk timing mode
and select bootable disk on U66 channels.

. Fix not compatible with Phoneix BIOS which is caused by
the Int13h extend functions implementation in previous changes.
. Fix compatibility with AOpen AX6BC Pro mainboard.

1.10.0 . Fix interrupt problem which will cause system won't
boot up if HPT366 plugs in different PCI slots.
. Add Int13h extended functions which are required for WHQL.

1.00.9 . Fix compatibility problem on WD205AA hard disk.

1.00.8 . Fix timing table setting on PIO1/PIO0 and DMA1.
. Fix scanning error on Intel 810 chipset.
. Fix ZIP drive problem.
. Fix detection devices problem if only "Slave" channel.
device exists

1.00.7 . Support more than one HPT366 adapters on NT4.0 system.
1.00.0 . Offical release.

#############################################################################

and i know somewhere that the larger HDD were enabled with some of the latest version of BIOS (from 1.25)...but i don't know which one?! and would want to trow away money for the HDD i could not use...

[s4brains]

and i know somewhere that the larger HDD were enabled with some of the latest version of BIOS (from 1.25)...but i don't know which one?! and would want to trow away money for the HDD i could not use...

KliK,

I believe that you are mistaken. The early firmware BIOS versions for the HPT366 did not even have the capability to support drives up to 137 GB. One of the early Highpoint BIOS revisions moved the size limit from a value that was lower than 137 GB up to the current 137 GB threshold. The first Highpoint 366 BIOS releases were constrained to using drives no larger than 80 GB or some similarly low limit.

You might also want to pay particular attention to this discussion:

http://www.48bitlba.com/faq.htm#FAQ3


s4

[Wolfram]

BUT there is AFAIK no BIOS that supports large disks. 48bit-LBA support is given through the Microsoft IDE driver (atapi.sys) supplied with Windows, at least if you have XP SP1 or SP2 installed.

Wolfram,

The above statements are quite misleading. System BIOS's which support 48-bit addressing DO exist and this is required for large drive support for a large drive attached to a system board IDE controller.

Sorry... didn't mean to mislead anyone... I wanted to say that there is no 48bit-LBA-BIOS for the BP6, but now I'm not sure about the standard onboard IDE. There is definitely no such BIOS for the HPT366.

AFAIK the BIOS does NOT have to support 48bit-LBA, even not if a large drive is the boot drive. The files the operating system needs to boot should be in the first 128GB of the drive, which are accessible for the boot loader via the 28bit-LBA INT13h-extensions, that's all.

If I remember correctly WinXP with SP2 provides the o/s component fully at installation default conditions while WinXP with SP1 reguires subsequent registry tweaks to enable 48-bit LBA support.

IIRC XP SP1 works out-of-the-box, XP w/o SP and 2000 SP3/SP4 need to have that registry key set manually.

With an alternative o/s like BeOS or Linux it is possible to bypass the BIOS requirement because these o/s's can build a software "sector translation" remapping algorythm into the kernel. One could also use a program like OnTrak Software and Windows without BIOS support but I would not recommend this solution

AFAIK the operating system (at least modern operating systems) completely takes over once it is booted. So, if BIOS support was still needed then, that would also be true for Linux.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Regards,

Wolfram

[s4brains]

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Nah, it's not worth the time and effort to make corrections.

My data is not at risk and I'm weary of this discussion.

[Wolfram]

If you don't believe me, maybe you believe Microsoft. From http://support.microsoft.com/default.as ... us;q305098

The following conditions are necessary for the correct functioning of 48-bit LBA ATAPI support:
• A computer with a 48-bit LBA-compatible Basic Input/Output System (BIOS) installed.
• A computer with a hard disk that has a capacity of greater than 137 gigabytes (GB).

But that's not all (bold accentuations by me):

NOTE: If you enable 48-bit LBA ATAPI support by editing the preceding registry key, but your system does not meet the minimum requirements, you may observe the following behaviors:
• Operating systems that do not have 48-bit LBA support enabled by default (such as Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition (Me), or Windows 2000) that are installed on a partition that spans beyond the 28-bit LBA boundary (137GB) will experience data corruption or data loss.
• The installation of operating systems that do not have 48-bit LBA support enabled by default (such as Windows 98, Windows Me, or Windows 2000) on a partition that is beyond the 28-bit LBA boundary (137 GB) is unsuccessful and leaves behind a temporary installation folder.
• If you install hotfixes that enable 48-bit LBA before you install Windows 2000 Service Pack 3 (SP3), the appropriate registry key will be automatically created during the installation of SP3 to preserve the data integrity of the hard disk.
• After you enable 48-bit LBA support by adding the appropriate registry key, data corruption may occur if you remove the registry key or if you remove (uninstall) SP3 for Windows 2000.
• If you install a copy of Windows 2000 that includes SP3 (SP3 integrated) on a large hard disk that has already been preformatted by using a 48-bit LBA-enabled operating system, the ATAPI subsystem may report hard-disk space greater than that which is addressable without the 48-bit LBA support (larger than approximately 137 GB) during the text-mode portion of Setup. In this case, the hard disk's partition table information has already been created. To fix the incorrect disk information, delete the partition by using either a disk partitioning utility or by deleting and then re-creating the partition during the text-mode portion of Setup. After you create the new partition, quit Setup by pressing F3, and then restart the Windows installation process. The ATAPI subsystem now correctly shows approximately 137 GB of hard disk space.
• The EnableBigLba registry value is disabled:

If you have a 48-bit compatible BIOS that can support a hard disk that has a capacity of more than 137 GB, only the first 137 GB of the hard disk is addressable. The remainder of the hard disk is not used.
• The operating system must be installed on the first partition that is smaller or equal to 137 GB when the EnableBigLba registry value is enabled but when you do not have a 48-bit LBA compatible BIOS.

If you enable the 48-bit LBA ATAPI support by editing the registry setting, but you lack both a 48-bit LBA compatible BIOS and a hard disk that has a capacity of more than 137 GB, the hard disk continues to function as a standard hard disk with an addressable limit of 137 GB.
• The operating system must be installed on the first partition that is less than or equal to 137 GB and the rest of the hard disk divided into one or more remaining partitions when the EnableBigLba registry value is enabled on a computer without a 48-bit LBA compatible BIOS that has a hard disk with a capacity of more than 137 GB.

This means you can run a large harddisk on a system without one of the stated "minimum requirements"- without a 48bit-LBA capable BIOS.

[tenchimuyo93]

yes im new here but i have ran my maxtor 200gb drive on the hpt366 before with 2 100gb partions. i just had to partion it off the regular ide channel. till it was partioned this way the hpt366 would only show 137gb no matter what i tried.

[davd_bob]

KliK,
Did you come up with an acceptable solution?

It sounds like you are requiring a single partition drive that is over 137GIG.

I know its not the first choice, but maybe consider the network card moving to ISA on the end of the board freeing a PCI slot.

[KliK]

KliK,
Did you come up with an acceptable solution?

It sounds like you are requiring a single partition drive that is over 137GIG.

I know its not the first choice, but maybe consider the network card moving to ISA on the end of the board freeing a PCI slot.

only that i have to partition the drive before putting on HPT366...

and no, i can't do that...'cause i have SB AWE 32 on ISA!

[davd_bob]

Geez,
You sure do need dual PSUs. Thats a lot of power to feed to one system.

[KliK]

Geez,
You sure do need dual PSUs. Thats a lot of power to feed to one system.

and another HDD is coming to life soon, 80GB...
so that will sum it up of 4HDD, DVD ROM, DVD RAM & HDD drawing...

[Dave Rave]

yes im new here but i have ran my maxtor 200gb drive on the hpt366 before with 2 100gb partions. i just had to partion it off the regular ide channel. till it was partioned this way the hpt366 would only show 137gb no matter what i tried.

this sounds like the old dos fdisk limitation
you can use a larger disk than it can 'show'
but it still shows only the available disk above the limit
with an 80gb drive it shows there is about 15gb avail,
80 - 63
or what the number is

as you can't put in a number above the 15 ( or so) to manually partitioin , all seems lost
or kaput

but if you use 25%, and as long as you know what the drive's size is, you can percentage fdisk the drive, correctly

[tenchimuyo93]

just got an OEM Seagate 160GB in one partion on the HPT366 using maxtors maxblast 5 program while connected to HPT366. im thinking it changes the reporting size. but im just guessing there. im going to fill it up later to test if it can hold the full 160 {149 reported by windows, i hate that}.

[davd_bob]

All I can say is WOW.

What do you do with all that storage space?

I have only one system with a drive over 100gig(using 35) and all my other ones have 80 or less. In fact, all but one the 250 or so systems I support at work have 80 or less and none of them ever uses even 7 gig of their storage.

[Derek]

All I can say is WOW.

What do you do with all that storage space?

I have only one system with a drive over 100gig(using 35) and all my other ones have 80 or less. In fact, all but one the 250 or so systems I support at work have 80 or less and none of them ever uses even 7 gig of their storage.

Hmmm... Suspiciously low HD usage!

There is never enough storage capacity! Bring on the terabytes!

[tenchimuyo93]

All I can say is WOW.

What do you do with all that storage space?

I have only one system with a drive over 100gig(using 35) and all my other ones have 80 or less. In fact, all but one the 250 or so systems I support at work have 80 or less and none of them ever uses even 7 gig of their storage.

there is never enough storage for an anime freak. and to update its 75% full right now, hopefully it wont leak/corrupt due to being forced bassed the size limit. if it doesnt bring on the 500GB drives.

[InactiveX]

Doesn't Windows take up about 80GB on its own?

[KliK]

Doesn't Windows take up about 80GB on its own?

maybe if you try to run Vista...but that would work VERY SLOW on BP6!