Man Arrested for Accessing Wi-Fi Network

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Man Arrested for Accessing Wi-Fi Network

Post by 24seven »

Florida man is charged with a felony after allegedly using someone else's home Wi-Fi network.

A man who allegedly accessed a home Wi-Fi network in St. Petersburg, Florida, from a parked car got logged off the hard way: He was arrested and charged with a felony.

Dinon saw Smith sitting in a parked sport-utility vehicle in front of his house and wondered what he was doing there, then saw he was using a notebook computer, Kajtsa says.
Article on PCWorld.com
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Post by davd_bob »

I read on of the IT articles on MSNBC.com and the author mentioned that this is the way she(at least I think it was a female author) submitted her work when in the field. The author made a direct claim that by simply driving around for a little while it was easy to find an un-secured Wi-Fi.

The article was probably 12-18 months ago so hopefully what I remember is accurate.
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Post by 24seven »

Dont know how many of you are into the whole 'war driving' thing, a fair few of my friends do it.
But actually using the connection to submit news etc is kinda clever, rather than just going 'wooooh Ive found an un-secure network, lets connect. woooh Ive connected. Ok lets go before they find out' which is kind of lame really.
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Post by purrkur »

The way I see it is simple. If the network is not secured at all and the "user" was able to connect by simply saying "connect to this unsecure network" then I don't see the crime. Either the owner of the wireless was an idiot for not reading the manual and making sure that his network was secure or he simply doesn't mind that the general public uses his wireless.

On the other hand, if it was secured and the "user" used tools to figure out IP addresses, cracked the WPA encryption or something of that sort then I see that as a crime. Somebody was using the network when the owner had taken steps to make sure that it would remain private.

I think it is pretty much common knowledge that there are people who will drive around to find unsecured networks to log into. When I bought my wireless router, both the short "get it up and running" manual and the larger manual had security info written on almost every page. You must be really ignorant or stupid (or both) if you don't realise that you should tie down your wireless if you get such equipment.
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Post by hyperspace »

So...

If I come by your home and your car has the keys in it, can I take it? :)
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Post by purrkur »

Good point. You would be taking posession of my physical property though. In this case nothing was really stolen or taken.

Of course everybody will call me an idiot and saying that I got what I deserved for leaving the keys in the car...

:)
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Post by Billl »

purrkur wrote:The way I see it is simple. If the network is not secured at all and the "user" was able to connect by simply saying "connect to this unsecure network" then I don't see the crime. Either the owner of the wireless was an idiot for not reading the manual and making sure that his network was secure or he simply doesn't mind that the general public uses his wireless.
You know that statement is wrong on so many levels. Did it ever occur to you that a lot of the hardware out there is simply unsecurable? WEP security if you can get it working is a joke at best. I've left my network unsecure because I'm too "idiotic" to be able to figure out how to make it secure! About the best I can do is turn on access control in the router and filter the connections by MAC address. But hey I'm just a friggen "idiot" what do I know! The hodge podge of stuff I have here simply won't work with any security turned on period. I've been building and working on computers for years. So if I can't get it to work what chance does your average "idiot" have in making this stuff work? Or maybe by your logic I should just throw out all this incompatible wireless hardware and buy all new stuff, otherwise I just get what I deserve?

And if we follow your logic out then the following is true. If your "idiotic" enough to leave your doors open on a hot afternoon and I just decide to walk through your house. It's just fine since you were too "idiotic" to bother locking them!

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Post by kuun »

hyperspace wrote:So...

If I come by your home and your car has the keys in it, can I take it? :)
that's never stoipped alot of theieves.... if the keys are in it.. they'll take it...

thats like putting candy in front of a baby and expecting the baby not to eat it...

c'mon now

the guy was an idiot.. he got what he deserved.. but then again... the person accessing the wi-fi network shuolda been more descrete and prolly shoulda done it in a more... commercial area... how many company network admins actually know their shit? not very many...
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Post by purrkur »

Billl wrote:You know that statement is wrong on so many levels. Did it ever occur to you that a lot of the hardware out there is simply unsecurable? WEP security if you can get it working is a joke at best.
If you would have bothered reading everything I wrote then you would realise that you are blowing hot air for no reason. I too realise that the security surrounding wireless networks are pretty easy to crack (yes, even WPA is not a challenge to certain tools out there now). But I wrote, and I quote:
On the other hand, if it was secured and the "user" used tools to figure out IP addresses, cracked the WPA encryption or something of that sort then I see that as a crime.
So as you may see above, I didn't say a word on how good the security was, only if it was present or not. So my point is, since you don't seem to understand what I mean, is that if WPA, WEP, IP filtering or such is present and somebody uses a tool[/] to hack those then that would be a crime. Please don't take what I have said out of context because I said nothing about the quality of the security at all.

FWIW, here in Europe, there are areas (especially in big cities) that are sprouting up that set up wireless networking communities for everybody to use for free. Now if we go all the way and simply ban access to wireless networks you haven't set up yourself then those communities would be impossible to set up.

However, if you have secured a wireless router, no matter how silly they may be in terms of the security they provide, a user has to use software tool to "break" those security measures which means that they are knowingly entering where people don't want you to enter.

Billl wrote:I've left my network unsecure because I'm too "idiotic" to be able to figure out how to make it secure! About the best I can do is turn on access control in the router and filter the connections by MAC address. But hey I'm just a friggen "idiot" what do I know!


Jeez, you seem to be taking this so goddamn personally! What is your issue? If you can't get the stuff to work then have you maybe considered calling tech support for the product you have purchased and telling them that their product is not user friendly enough to get working by manuals only? I bought myself a Linksys product and yes, I did have to do some reading to get the required functionality I wanted but if I had not then I might have considered returning the product.

Billl wrote:The hodge podge of stuff I have here simply won't work with any security turned on period. I've been building and working on computers for years. So if I can't get it to work what chance does your average "idiot" have in making this stuff work? Or maybe by your logic I should just throw out all this incompatible wireless hardware and buy all new stuff, otherwise I just get what I deserve?


Listen, don't make assumptions about what I mean or don't mean. If you want to take out your inability to get security functions working in your wireless equipment then take it up with the maker of the product and/or their technical support.

Billl wrote:And if we follow your logic out then the following is true. If your "idiotic" enough to leave your doors open on a hot afternoon and I just decide to walk through your house. It's just fine since you were too "idiotic" to bother locking them!


See the comments about the unlocked car above. And read my comment on the free wireless communities that are sprouting up in cities as well.
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Post by Derek »

On Friday morning I left from Montreal to Toronto. It is about a 7 hour drive if you obey the speed limits (enough on that topic).

To make a long, boring, story short:

I need to check my email...

The house that I'm at in Toronto (my friend’s house) has a wireless network. Great! I can use my laptop and log online. Even better, he's even secured the network! Good or bad? It’s 1 in the morning and my friend is sleeping… I’m up and on laptop trying to connect to his network but I don’t have the key!!! Hmmmmmm.

Now, I’m not going to wake him up just to ask him for the key… Trying to wake him may be dangerous… Deadly even...

But I need to check my email!

So what do I do?
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Post by hyperspace »

Derek wrote:But I need to check my email! So what do I do?
Email will be there in the morning. Go to bed. :lol:

About the billl and purrkur banter...

People need to know that wireless is still new technology and should seriously consider not using it, if they want a very secure network. I wonder how many individuals have been "sold on" wireless and were not told about securing it. BestBuy comes to mind.

If you are not trying to steal information, you may be stealing someone's "capped" bandwidth.

My bottom line. Take responsibility for your actions. Secure your wireless. Do the time, if you are caught doing the crime.

If you are smart enough to access someone's unsecured wireless, you should know what might happen. But then, there are probably some individuals that bring up their wireless for the first time, gain access to the Internet, and think, "WOW! Technology is great!". Not knowing they are using someone else's connection.

WWW == Wild, Wild, WEB. And there's no Sheriffs out there. :twisted:
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Post by Billl »

purrkur wrote: If you would have bothered reading everything I wrote then you would realise that you are blowing hot air for no reason. I too realise that the security surrounding wireless networks are pretty easy to crack (yes, even WPA is not a challenge to certain tools out there now). But I wrote, and I quote:
On the other hand, if it was secured and the "user" used tools to figure out IP addresses, cracked the WPA encryption or something of that sort then I see that as a crime.
I saw what you wrote and I still stand by what I said. It's a crime anyway you look at it. Secured or not it's someones personal property period.
purrkur wrote: So as you may see above, I didn't say a word on how good the security was, only if it was present or not. So my point is, since you don't seem to understand what I mean, is that if WPA, WEP, IP filtering or such is present and somebody uses a tool[/] to hack those then that would be a crime. Please don't take what I have said out of context because I said nothing about the quality of the security at all.



And I think your missing my point. The quality of the security isn't the issue period. Any more then the quality of the security at your front door. It's your personal property and no one has the right to violate it no matter how lame your security is or even if it's none exsistant. That guy knew exactly what he was doing, and he knew or damn well should have known he was breaking the law.

purrkur wrote:
FWIW, here in Europe, there are areas (especially in big cities) that are sprouting up that set up wireless networking communities for everybody to use for free. Now if we go all the way and simply ban access to wireless networks you haven't set up yourself then those communities would be impossible to set up.


I don't see how that is relevant to what we were talking about? But I have nothing against free wireless at all. I just fail to see how you can take what he was doing as anything but breaking the law.

purrkur wrote:
However, if you have secured a wireless router, no matter how silly they may be in terms of the security they provide, a user has to use software tool to "break" those security measures which means that they are knowingly entering where people don't want you to enter.


So why does any security need to be turned on to make this arguement relevant? If my front door is unlocked it's ok to just walk right in?

Billl wrote:I've left my network unsecure because I'm too "idiotic" to be able to figure out how to make it secure! About the best I can do is turn on access control in the router and filter the connections by MAC address. But hey I'm just a friggen "idiot" what do I know!


purrkur wrote:
Jeez, you seem to be taking this so goddamn personally! What is your issue? If you can't get the stuff to work then have you maybe considered calling tech support for the product you have purchased and telling them that their product is not user friendly enough to get working by manuals only? I bought myself a Linksys product and yes, I did have to do some reading to get the required functionality I wanted but if I had not then I might have considered returning the product.


No actually I was just making the point, that if I'm having problems making this incompatible crap secure. What chance does your average "idiot" have in getting it to work. I'm not taking it personally at all. And I really don't care if someone breaks into my internet connection. I was making reference to the fact that you were saying anyone that doesn't have their wireless secured is an idiot. The sorry fact is that some of this stuff just won't connect with any security enabled.

Billl wrote:The hodge podge of stuff I have here simply won't work with any security turned on period. I've been building and working on computers for years. So if I can't get it to work what chance does your average "idiot" have in making this stuff work? Or maybe by your logic I should just throw out all this incompatible wireless hardware and buy all new stuff, otherwise I just get what I deserve?


purrkur wrote:
Listen, don't make assumptions about what I mean or don't mean. If you want to take out your inability to get security functions working in your wireless equipment then take it up with the maker of the product and/or their technical support.


I wasn't making an assumption you pretty much said and I'll quote for you:
purrkur wrote:
The way I see it is simple. If the network is not secured at all and the "user" was able to connect by simply saying "connect to this unsecure network" then I don't see the crime. Either the owner of the wireless was an idiot for not reading the manual and making sure that his network was secure or he simply doesn't mind that the general public uses his wireless.


Sounds pretty clear to me if the "idiot" doesn't have any security on then he gets what he deserves?


Billl wrote:And if we follow your logic out then the following is true. If your "idiotic" enough to leave your doors open on a hot afternoon and I just decide to walk through your house. It's just fine since you were too "idiotic" to bother locking them!


purrkur wrote:
See the comments about the unlocked car above. And read my comment on the free wireless communities that are sprouting up in cities as well.


I read them but it doesn't really pertain to just taking a stroll through the house now does it? Assuming nothing is touched then by your logic no harm was done?

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Post by purrkur »

Whatever....
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Post by Billl »

purrkur wrote:Whatever....
lol all that for a whatever. Guess I made my point!

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Post by davd_bob »

Guys,
I was wondering...
If you left the keys in your car, and your front door open on your house, and your WI-FI totally unsecured...and I am standing on the sidwalk in front of that house...am I stealing if I breath the air right there in that spot.
If not, how long will it be until someone(proly MS or INTEL) figures out how to copyright or find some other way to charge royalties for air?

lol.
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Post by InactiveX »

davd_bob wrote:If you left the keys in your car, and your front door open on your house, and your WI-FI totally unsecured...and I am standing on the sidwalk in from of that house...am I stealing if I breath the air right there in that spot.
That would all depend on whether or not you are an idiot. :wink:
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Post by purrkur »

Hehehe!
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Post by hyperspace »

InactiveX wrote:
davd_bob wrote:If you left the keys in your car, and your front door open on your house, and your WI-FI totally unsecured...and I am standing on the sidwalk in from of that house...am I stealing if I breath the air right there in that spot.
That would all depend on whether or not you are an idiot. :wink:
A very silly lot we are! :lol:
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Post by Tim_K »

I see we've got a few people here who are real tightasses about the whole wireless security thing.

Yes, TECHNICALLY you shouldn't access someone else's network without permission.

But most people don't seem to care.

I've driven around in my area, through several housing developments and small towns with a laptop, a quality Orinoco wireless card (no external antenna, although it has the connector for one), and Network Stumbler 0.4.0 running . Of all the connections I found, fully 2/3 to 3/4 of them are NOT secured!

I have no need to try and access the internet over those connections, I have high speed cable at home.

I advertise in my local area for home computer repairs. I don't get many calls, but some now and then for a little extra cash. Sometimes the people whose computer I'm working on speak about getting a wireless network in their house. I tell them to make sure they turn the WEP security on. They smile, say "Why, so people can't get on my connection from next door or the street"? and then they just blow the whole thing off. It's not a big deal to most people, or they're just too stupid to care.

If you all really want to see some good arguments on this subject, head over to netstumbler.com . The admins over there LOVE to tear people new assholes whenever this subject comes up. They're a REAL bunch of tightasses who take it very personally, too. Idiots.

More and more places are offering public access wireless, so I think that in MOST cases, the thing to do is just chill out and relax about the whole subject. If the owner didn't secure it, enjoy the free access!
Last edited by Tim_K on Sat Jul 30, 2005 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by purrkur »

Hehehe! I have never been called a tightass before (I guess I am one of the tightasses you are you are referring to) but then again there is always a first time for everything :D
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Post by davd_bob »

Now Im confused.
Am I a tightass or an idiot?
Do I get to choose which one I am?

I think I will stick to thinking Im smart and leave it at that.

BTW, I think that logging on to some ones WI-FI without their permission is akin to peeking in their bedroom windows without their permission.

Darn, I couldn't do that either if they used some kind of security...like curtians.
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Post by 24seven »

Much like private roads, people are always going to say 'ooh I wonder what is down there' and go take a look.
If you put a gate on it they cant.
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Post by hyperspace »

If the end of a private water hose is next to a public sidewalk and the water is running, is it OK to take a drink of water? Is it OK to fill up your 10 gallon water container?

:twisted:
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Post by 24seven »

hyperspace wrote:If the end of a private water hose is next to a public sidewalk and the water is running, is it OK to take a drink of water? Is it OK to fill up your 10 gallon water container?

:twisted:
OK to take a drink, but filling up the 10 gallon container would be cheeky.
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Post by purrkur »

24seven wrote:
hyperspace wrote:If the end of a private water hose is next to a public sidewalk and the water is running, is it OK to take a drink of water? Is it OK to fill up your 10 gallon water container?

:twisted:
OK to take a drink, but filling up the 10 gallon container would be cheeky.
But wait, what if you are really, REALLY thirsty??
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